Emil, Your Sideboards

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TerryW
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Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:28 pm

I do not know if a 2in crescent will allow the martins to enter. If you have a 2in pipe cut to size that the martins will use, and if that pipe is cut to 3/4inch, you will not need sideboards. What I am saying is that a 3/4 inch thick opening does not require sideboards.
Even easier to do, Emil, but I will just make a 3/4" thick crescent, and not even screw around with the 2" pipe because the arc would not be quite right for a crescent anyway. Already have the jig for that, and for an excluder, and Conley too, for that matter. Only thing I will have to check is whether my router bit will cut 3/4" material, whatever it will cut, I will make it that thick. Don't even need a picture for that, you guys know what that will look like.

You know, if you were to laminate two 1/2" thick Sintra crescents (I don't have any 3/8" Sintra), you could place a mounting flange made out of plastic siding in between the two pieces of crescents, and the space that would be created by adding the mounting flange would provide traction and a universal mount for almost any cavity.

Emil Pampell-Tx
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Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Emil Pampell-Tx » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:36 am

Whippy, I did not install the sideboards on the inside because I use gourds and cannot get inside the gourd. However, with your houses and doors, YES, the sideboards can be installed inside.

The entire idea is to make the entrance thicker with thicker entrance plates, or with sideboards. From the starlings thinking, they cannot tilt their body enough to get their back inside if the entrance area is too thick. I used sideboards on thin entrances.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps

Whippy
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Location: Plano, Texas
Martin Colony History: 2016 - late to put up, many visitors
2017 - 1 pair, 3 fledged
2018- 2 pair, 12 fledged
2019 - 4 pair, 21 fledged
2020 - ?

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Whippy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:18 am

Whippy, I did not install the sideboards on the inside because I use gourds and cannot get inside the gourd. However, with your houses and doors, YES, the sideboards can be installed inside.

The entire idea is to make the entrance thicker with thicker entrance plates, or with sideboards. From the starlings thinking, they cannot tilt their body enough to get their back inside if the entrance area is too thick. I used sideboards on thin entrances.
I understand. I'll be working on this over the next few days. The doors on my Trio are just punched out of the sheet metal and don't look all that safe. My concern is that this house had round entrances for the longest time and the 2 pair of Martins who have been using this house will be presented with the new crescents when they get home. I would hate for them to get trapped. I guess I could use the round holes for the two pair that have been there forever and use the crescents on the ones that are just being opened for the first time in 8 years or more. I don't have any issues with sparrows or starlings so using the round holes for the current occupants won't worry me.

I'll play around with it.

Thank you very much.

Coolwhips.

Emil Pampell-Tx
Posts: 6743
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Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Emil Pampell-Tx » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:29 am

Whippy, YES, its ok to put sideboards on the inside. In my case, I cannot get inside of the gourds, so I put the sideboards on the outside. If you use a homemade entrance that is 3/4in thick, then you do not need sideboards.

Starlings enter a SREH by tilting their body sideways, but they cannot tilt the body enough ( 3/4in). Any entrance that is 3/4in thick does not need sideboards.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps

Whippy
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:15 pm
Location: Plano, Texas
Martin Colony History: 2016 - late to put up, many visitors
2017 - 1 pair, 3 fledged
2018- 2 pair, 12 fledged
2019 - 4 pair, 21 fledged
2020 - ?

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Whippy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:35 am

Whippy, YES, its ok to put sideboards on the inside. In my case, I cannot get inside of the gourds, so I put the sideboards on the outside. If you use a homemade entrance that is 3/4in thick, then you do not need sideboards.

Starlings enter a SREH by tilting their body sideways, but they cannot tilt the body enough ( 3/4in). Any entrance that is 3/4in thick does not need sideboards.

Gotcha.

Thank you.

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:52 pm

C.jpg
(149.79 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Supposed to be a picture of a 1/2" thick crescent, but I don't know if it will show because I don't know if I did it right.

Using my router I can cut it from approx. 1/2" thick Sintra but that is the limit. Personally I wouldn't try anything thicker than this anyway because I doubt a PM could negotiate it. Should be easy to caulk this into most cavities. Anybody want to try it? I am not planning to; I am pretty much set and ready to go with traps and my Henry 22.

Well, it appears to work even though the image says it's not downloaded yet.

Emil Pampell-Tx
Posts: 6743
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Emil Pampell-Tx » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:28 am

Terry, that looks good and it makes me wonder if it would be sufficient to stop starlings with a 1/2in thick entrance. I did not try anything smaller than 3/4 inch. It would be interesting to see if 1/2in thick entrance stops them.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:44 am

Terry, that looks good and it makes me wonder if it would be sufficient to stop starlings with a 1/2in thick entrance. I did not try anything smaller than 3/4 inch. It would be interesting to see if 1/2in thick entrance stops them.
I have to yield to your experience.

The problem for me is I don't see a router bit that can handle 3/4". I don't like laminating a 1/4" thick one to the1/2" one, but could do it, kinda hard to get them lined up perfectly and glued together true. I also don't particularly like the rough surface of cut foam PVC being the entryway.

There probably is another way: Take thin-wall 2' PVC pipe and cut a 3/4" length of pipe from it, measure down say 1-1/4" and cut some of its arc away so you are left with an arc that is close to being the arc portion of a crescent opening. Then use 1-3/16" dia metal rod as a sort of mandrel, use a heat gun and press the arc of PVC pipe against the 1-3/16 dia mandrel until it gets hot enough and "yields" and assumes a near-permanent 1-3/16 radius, then glue a horizontal piece across the legs of the arc. You then have a true crescent entrance that is 3/4" thick and the entryway is of slick plastic. Might try that sometime. Guess one could use 1-3/16" dowel rod instead of steel.

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:42 am

Oops, I am being a goofball! The arc of a crescent is a radius of 1-1/2", not 1-3/16". It's vertical opening is 1-3/16". That means if you select a 3' thick-wall pvc pipe which has an ID of 3" (1-1/2" radius) and saw off a length of pipe that is 3/4" long, you can very easily construct a 3/4" deep crescent opening from it.

Do you still say, Emil, that it won't need built-in sideboards if it is a 3/4" deep crescent? Do you have actual experience with that or is it more of a feeling that they won't be needed. Please understand this is only a question...I absolutely do a lot of my work guided only by my feelings...nothing wrong with that.

For instance if a crescent has sharp corners instead of the rounded corners that a router bit makes, won't there be potential for hung-up wings on those sharp corners? I never experienced wing-entrapment in my short tenure with my large colony a few years ago, but every one of my crescent openings were constructed with a router which produced rounded corners for my crescents.
Last edited by TerryW on Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TerryW
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:14 pm

Went to town and found a piece of 3" pvc pipe, schedule 40, cut a 3/4" length of pipe from it then sawed it at appropriate place and glued a porch onto it. The opening is 3/4" deep and its crescent is identical in measurements to a crescent opening. Caulked the corners so there would be less chance of catching wings. Cost me 20 bucks to get that little bitty piece of pipe...oh well...called burning desire, I guess.

I scratched the porched surfaces to improve traction. Ignore the smudges; the smudges are not scratches, I was trying to add stuff that would show the traction marks...all it did was to smudge it up...grin

You wouldn't have to use a porch, you could just use a 3/4" wide piece of thin plastic and glue it to the legs, then you could install it into most any cavity, I believe.

Little pic is me messing with posting images. Tried to remove the big pic in favor of the little one, but I did something wrong and big picture stayed. Hated it because it was so dang big and bold...don't know how I get myself into these things...oh well, pic is at least there.
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Last edited by TerryW on Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:03 am, edited 5 times in total.

Emil Pampell-Tx
Posts: 6743
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Emil Pampell-Tx » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:13 pm

Terry, that looks excellent. No, you do not need sideboards with that type of entrance. You are right, all of my experience is with sideboards. My feeling is that any obstruction on the outside of the entrance that keeps the starling from turning sideways to enter should work (example, upright dowels 3/4in from the entrance will work if they keep the starling from turning sideways to enter.)
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps

randy741985
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Martin Colony History: 2018-First Year 0 Martins
2019- Lots Lookers
2020- TBD

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby randy741985 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:49 pm

CP2.jpg

Went to town and found a piece of 3" pvc pipe, schedule 40, cut a 3/4" length of pipe from it then sawed it at appropriate place and glued a porch onto it. The opening is 3/4" deep and its crescent is identical in measurements to a crescent opening. Caulked the corners so there would be less chance of catching wings. Cost me 20 bucks to get that little bitty piece of pipe...oh well...called burning desire, I guess.

I scratched the porched surfaces to improve traction. Ignore the smudges; the smudges are not scratches, I was trying to add stuff that would show the traction marks...all it did was to smudge it up...grin

You wouldn't have to use a porch, you could just use a 3/4" wide piece of thin plastic and glue it to the legs, then you could install it into most any cavity, I believe.

That's looks great, isn't a crescent opening 1 3/16" max opening with 1 1/2" radius? So that 3 pipe with 1 1 /2" radius is perfect you could get 2 crescent opening out of 1 cut?
2018-14 Gourds First Year 0 Martins
2019- 14 Gourds Lots Lookers
2020- 6 Gourds TBD

TerryW
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:10 am

Thanks, Emil.

That's right, Randy. Course they wouldn't sell me a piece of pipe. I had to buy a full length, 20', but out of 20 feet I could make over 400 of them. :)

I will go ahead and make and install them in a couple old SG's. My problem though is I am just now starting a new colony after quitting a few years ago. May get some starlings, but who knows if I will get any martins. If someone wants a few, I don't mind making them and sending them, just pay the shipping.

Brad Biddle
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Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Brad Biddle » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:54 am

That’s got a whole lot of potential. I could see potential for the “bottomless” entrance to be breached. It may or may not be. If I is then a flat piece of pvc added, the same width as the arc would surely stop it. The arc would have to be taller but I think that would be more starling resistant. That would in my mind, stop some leverage benefits that they’d have with the bottomless entrance.

I’m no engineer though and I know that one or two of you on this thread were or at least I think you were in your professional life. I’m just SWAG’ing it. LOL
Martin landlord since 2003. Currently offering 102 plastic gourds with tunnels and all SREH.

John Miller
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Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby John Miller » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:35 am

Arch guard looks great. One can make the guards out of thin wall PVC, 3 inch diameter. With thin, I first cut a 3/4 inch ring (as shown) but can use tin snips to next trim out an arch to fit...cutting a little at a time to get right fit (not a tool guy). Comes in 8 foot lengths from home centers.

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:54 pm

Arch guard looks great. One can make the guards out of thin wall PVC, 3 inch diameter. With thin, I first cut a 3/4 inch ring (as shown) but can use tin snips to next trim out an arch to fit...cutting a little at a time to get right fit (not a tool guy). Comes in 8 foot lengths from home centers.
Thanks, trouble with thin wall, its id is (I feel) significantly greater than 3" (1-1/2" radius), that's why I stuck with sch40, because it's right on the money. Like to have a lot of unused stuff laying around too. yuk yuk.

Yeah, Brad, I am one, but it usually just gets me in trouble. Besides everybody hates a freakin engineer... :shock:

Brad, don't you live not too far from Abare? Think I remembered that from the past. My two current Abares are in pic if I can get it on here for you to see...made from local cedar:
CAGR1.jpg
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Last edited by TerryW on Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brad Biddle
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Location: Marshall County AL

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby Brad Biddle » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:24 pm

Terry IIRC he lives in Decatur or thereabouts. That’s about 75 minutes from here.
Martin landlord since 2003. Currently offering 102 plastic gourds with tunnels and all SREH.

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:41 am

Emil, finished two SuperGourds with the entrance shown in my above pic and have them up in the air. They have 4" tunnels with inner and outer traction porches and the 3/4" deep crescent, identical to the picture. Entrance is hair bit over 1-3/16" just like I used to make my crescents. Now for some needle-beak arses.

TerryW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:02 pm
Location: Nashville, Arkansas

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby TerryW » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 am

emil3a.jpg
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Here it is up in the air.
Last edited by TerryW on Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

randy741985
Posts: 121
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Martin Colony History: 2018-First Year 0 Martins
2019- Lots Lookers
2020- TBD

Re: Emil, Your Sideboards

Postby randy741985 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:53 pm

Looks good keeps us updated
How well it works. I wonder if it would hurt anything to have made the crescent even deeper?
2018-14 Gourds First Year 0 Martins
2019- 14 Gourds Lots Lookers
2020- 6 Gourds TBD


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