To shoot or not

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msaltzman
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 pm
Location: IL/Marseilles

I had to males so up today and hung around all day the sun was going down and they were in the house a starling showed up and was checking all the holes and I was gonna shoot it but I have never had any martins actually stay so I didn't want to scare them off finally the starling left and the martins are in the house I assume staying the nite since it has been dark for awhile and they are still the but should I shoot the starlings and sparrows even if there are martins around I just worry about scaring them
Gobbler T
Posts: 1518
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:13 am
Location: Mississippi / Columbus

I shoot. And a lot of landlord's I know shoot while their martin's sit and watch. My martin's flush just every now and then. They don't seem to care.
Tony


2007 --- 0 2011---0 2015---4
2008 --- 0 2012---0 16-19—0
2009 --- 0 2013---1 2020—?
2010 --- 0 2014---3
Ed Pace
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:31 pm
Location: NY/Jamestown

Because those martins showed up for the first time today and are not regulars, and you do not have an established colony I would be very careful about shooting and scaring the birds at this time. There should be plenty of time to get a crack at the starlings after the birds become more acustome to the new surroundings. If you have an established colony you can shoot all you want and the brds will come back.
Why take a chance with only two new birds.

Ed
GregB->AR
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:39 pm
Location: NorthWest/Arkansas

One of the most useful tools for shooting starlings and sparrows if you choose to go that route is a scoped 22 caliber Benjamin Marauder air rifle. With a depinger installed this rifle is near silent and extremely accurate at typical starling shooting distances. The Martins will just sit and watch the starling fall off the perch as if to say, wonder what happened to that guy. They are not bothered in the least bit by the shot.
mikeinkaty
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:54 am
Location: TX/Katy

GregB->AR wrote:One of the most useful tools for shooting starlings and sparrows if you choose to go that route is a scoped 22 caliber Benjamin Marauder air rifle. With a depinger installed this rifle is near silent and extremely accurate at typical starling shooting distances. The Martins will just sit and watch the starling fall off the perch as if to say, wonder what happened to that guy. They are not bothered in the least bit by the shot.
Another option is 22 caliber CB Longs. They shoot in a regular 22, but only have 700 fps velocity. That is comparable to an air rifle. Use a scope and sight it in really well. I don't shoot early in the season when I know PM's are on or in the house. Once the PM's are established it doesn't bother them. I saw a starling attack and kill a martin once and I kill the bast---- ever chance I get.

If you don't have Starling excluder holes then by all means get some. I find that Starling eventually give up and move on when excluder holes are used.
klcretired
Posts: 2174
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:06 am
Location: Grand Prairie,Tx

I have used my Beeman S-1 w/ scope for years (Very Very accurate, along w/ trapping I have no S & S's at my site. I say shoot , Trap, do whatever you can to rid yourself of those trash Beaks...Your Martins will Thank you for it!!!!, many many years ago when I first started shooting my martins bolted but came back in a few minutes IMO I think you will not loose your martins just because you shoot.
Pictures Taken with Canon Rebel XT Digital using a Sigma 50-500 Long Lens.

Wishing everyone a Great Martin Year
Happy Martining for 2020 to everyone,

K.C.

klcretired@tx.rr.com
Emil Pampell-Tx
Posts: 6743
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

I would go outside and chase away the starlings, and if the martins leave, then shoot the starling when it returns while the martins are away. You should be able to find a time when both are not there. Just wait for a chance to shoot when the martins are gone.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
taxidermy lady
Posts: 2989
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:21 am
Location: IL/Ellis Grove
Martin Colony History: Started trying to attract purple martins in 2012! It's finally happened in 2017! 5 years!!! ASY male and SY female came May 1st, fledged 5 babies!

I'm a firm believer in shooting before they ever get settled in. As soon as they land on my box, I run out my shop and shoot. Don't always hit them but it scares the pooh out of them. I had a sy stay for weeks at my site last year and he never mined the sound of the gun. He would take off and soon return. I am hoping (Fred) returns this year with a female. Blast those starlings!!! good luck to all.
GregB->AR
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:39 pm
Location: NorthWest/Arkansas

In my location, even though I am not within city limits and I can shoot whatever I would like, I have to take into consideration downrange residences although they are a few hundred yards out, they may well still be in range of a 22 rifle even one traveling at 700 fps. I can also shoot suppressed rifles as I am licensed. The 14.3 grain air rifle pellets lose their velocity and fall far quicker than a 40 grain bullet from a rimfire. This being said ... don't miss and you don't have much to worry about :)

I shoot usually from a metal shop building that I have that has two windows. I have a Benajmin Marauder located at each of these windows and a PTZ IP camera on site that I can watch and maneuver from inside my home to let me know that I need to take a break from writing computer programs and go outside and sit s bit. Did I mention that I hate starlings :P
Carrera Mike
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:23 am
Location: VA/Chesapeake

I dont hesitate when I see starlings on the PM housing. Im away to work 9-10 hours of the day so I dont see what the starlings do during that long window that they could harass the PMs. I use an Airforce Condor to keep them away.

as you can see below, we have a lot of these pesky birds in our area. They move like big dark clouds rolling over pastures
..
:cry:


Image
Last edited by Carrera Mike on Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mike

2014: 8 pairs, 43 eggs, 39 currently Fledging now
2013: 3 pairs, 8 fledged
2012: 3 pairs, 7 fledged
Vern1
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:06 pm
Location: Pettytown, Texas, US of A

Carrera Mike wrote:I dont hesitate when I see starlings on the PM housing. Im away to work 9-10 hours of the day so I dont see what the starlings do during that long window that they could harass the PMs. I use an Airforce Condor to keep them away.

as you could see below we have a lot of these pesky birds i our area. They move like big clouds
..
:cry:


Image
Man, that looks like a "flush 'em and cut lose with the pump shotgun" situation unless you are in town.
My Martins ignore the pellet gun report and like said, just watch the starlings and EHS explode in a ball of feathers and roll off the perch when shot with my Starling Whacker in .177.
Cheers,
Joe
2015 - 40 cavities - 37 pair - fledged 172
2016 - 40 cavities - 38 pair - fledged 192
Hosting Purple Martins since 1976...Managing since 2006.
Bulldog1
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:33 am
Location: Mississippi/Hamilton

Alfred Hitchcock would have loved that picture
PMCA member
2015 - 18 Gourds offered - 12 active nests, 62 eggs, 51 fledged
2014 - 18 gourds offered - 12 active nests, 52 eggs, 48 fledged
2013 - 12 gourds offered - 9 pairs, 56 eggs, 52 hatched, 49 fledged
2012 - 12 gourds offered -4 pairs, 20 eggs, 19 fledged
2011 - 6 gourds offered -1 pair, 5 eggs, 5 hatched, 5 fledged !!!!
Curtis Reil
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:51 pm
Location: Alberta/Tofield
Martin Colony History: I inherited this colony when I purchased the property from my Great Uncle. To the best of my knowledge, he had hosted Martins since 1977. Housing consisted of three twelve compartment units that he had built. Small compartments, round holes and no way to lower for managing. There were maybe 6-8 pairs here when we moved in. Through reading up on information provided by the PMCA and that provided to me by Bob Buskas, the decision was made to upgrade the housing. We are now fully switched over to North Star houses and hosted 58 pairs this season(2017). 60 compartments open for business and being so close to 100% occupancy, I believe we may expand housing offered next season. Expansion will continue contingent to high occupancy, being able to keep up on management and or until it starts to feel like work.

I've had good luck with the shooting of starlings and sparrows. The martins have not seemed to mind all that much. They flush but return. I'm far from a pro here but I did have a influx of subbies at my colony last season. Being as they were new birds I noticed that they were considerably more bothered by shots but still did return quickly and did successfully rear young. We cannot run supressors at all on any firearm up in Canada. As such, the higher powered air rifles have a fairly loud report and the martins flush just as readily from air or the report of a 22 in my experience. Now, for info on what I do have a lot of experience with. If you are using an air rifle, there are many grades and price points a person can explore. Basically, any decent air rifle can have respectable accuracy for plinking birds. Your biggest hurdle in accomplishing this is finding a specific projectile that your particular rifle shoots well. This can involve the purchasing and testing of many different pellets before you find the one but is soooo worth it. There are not only different calibers but different weights of pellets in said caliber. Plus in a certain pellets caliber and weight the higher end pellets can also come in slightly larger or smaller diameters to work with slight variations in barrel rifling tolerances from manufacturer to manufacturer. These although very tiny differences can greatly impact the accuracy enjoyed. It isn't a pile of money to purchase several different pellets so it is pretty cost effective. Plus depending on where you are situated, the impact of sending a projectile into the backdrop of the target area is greatly reduced. I've done some pretty extensive testing and a 25m sparrow head proves to be an easy target now. On a relatively calm day a starling at 50m is very routine. I believe that this sort of distance would accomodate most landlords. I'm not running fancy high dollar equipment either. Sorry if this seems like a bit of a thread derail but figured I'd share. Best of luck with whatever course you decide to follow.

Curtis
msaltzman
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 pm
Location: IL/Marseilles

Well bad news my birds stayed two nights and this morning were under attack from starlings I saw five starlings on the house and when the two martins came out the starlings bombarded them I went out and ran the birds off but I thinks the martins have had enough cause they have not been back I have shot four now this morning and they just keep coming hopefully I can get them under control it's so frustrating to finally have martins that seem interested and a crap bird tries to ruin it now I will shoot every one I can I have another house coming and hopefully by then I have them controlled thanks to everyone for the response
KathyF
Posts: 3518
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 1:57 pm
Location: Missouri/Licking
Martin Colony History: Colony started - 2007 with one pair
As of 2018 - 84 cavities offered, max # of pairs hosted - 82.

Do you have SREH on your housing to keep the starlings out of the housing? If so, do you have an S&S controller? If not you need to put out a nice, round-holed starling trap. They will readily go to the trap if you have SREH on your housing.

http://shop.purplemartin.org/S_S_Contro ... tails.aspx

You can also build a "tipping-can" trap for starlings - it's easy and cheap.
"Sometimes", said Pooh, "the smallest things take up the most room in your heart."
2016 - 82 pair
2015 - 76 pair
2014 - 75 pair
2013 - 75 pair
2012-72 pair
http://kathyfreeze.blogspot.com
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Kathy has a good point.
Why are the starlings so aggressive in your situation?
If the starlings have access to your house because the entrances are not starling resistant, then they will be very persistent and aggressive towards other birds trying to take possession of THEIR (the starlings :twisted: ) house.
Of course, I mean their house facetiously.
Your house needs to be the martin's house! :grin:
Good luck and do not give up.
I like your spirits towards the martins and against the trash birds.
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Berndog
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:33 am
Location: OH/Bethel

CHHOOTM !! I recently purchased a bone collector pellet rifle for that very reason..
msaltzman
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 pm
Location: IL/Marseilles

Ha ha ha berndog I bought the same thing for the same reason got six so far pretty accurate for a little pellet gun
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