Double Taverner Martin House Project

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ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Hi guys! Now that I have determined the best place to put the house- I want to have a fun project building one! My intention is to build a wooden Double style house... which will be pretty large.

Any help/input would be appreciated. I see so much talk about entrances, was just planning to do the good old circle.

Here's some inspiration images I'll use as I build.
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flyin-lowe
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

I have always thought those were interesting looking houses. I would never use the tilting pole like the first picture shows. No way to do nest checks etc. on a weekly bases. If you build that house I would come up with a way to have it slide up and down your pole.

As far as your entrances go you will be miserable in KY with round entrances. I'm an in Indiana and starling populations in this part of the country are crazy. Spend $2.00 per opening and buy the plastic SREH plates, it will be the best investment you can make. You will be miserable trying to keep starlings out of a house like that.
2020 Currently 42 nest, 110 babies, 64 eggs left to hatch(6-22-20) HOSP count-8
2019- 31 Pair over 100 fledged
2018- 15 pair last count 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair nested, 12 eggs total, fledged 10. 4 additional SY's stayed all summer but never paired/nested.
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles away, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair (11 that nested), 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair, 21 eggs, 16 hatched, 14 fledged.
ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

flyin-lowe wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:01 pm
I have always thought those were interesting looking houses. I would never use the tilting pole like the first picture shows. No way to do nest checks etc. on a weekly bases. If you build that house I would come up with a way to have it slide up and down your pole.

As far as your entrances go you will be miserable in KY with round entrances. I'm an in Indiana and starling populations in this part of the country are crazy. Spend $2.00 per opening and buy the plastic SREH plates, it will be the best investment you can make. You will be miserable trying to keep starlings out of a house like that.
This is exactly the kind of help/info I am looking for. Really appreciate it, and will absolutely take your advice!
John Barrow
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Corpus Christi / Sandia , Texas

That will certainly be a beautiful and impressive house with a lot of history attached to its design. I know that John Balga has posted plans to build such a house (found on the website for Ontario Purple Martin Association), as well as an outline of its history.

I totally agree with the comments that flying lowe has offered to this thread---no tilt down pole and use SREH entrance plates. I would add that the house will be most practical utilizing a square pole to raise and lower the house. It will be very heavy and will need to be lowered in advance of any high winds that will occur in your area. It is imperative that the compartments remain in the same basic alignment at all times. I would look at utilizing a 3 or 4 inch square aluminum pole to mount the house on; together with a good brake winch and stainless cable. Because of the potential for a large number of occupants, build in to your design the attachment of dowels or similar roosting spots that martins can utilize for perching apart from the entrance plates. The house is similar to the design of the T-14, which is much more common. You could search this forum for posts about building the T14 and find more information about design perks.

Although I did not comment on your location selection post, I agree with flying lowe and others that suggested the house be mounted closer to your home where it can best be observed during the daily family activities. The 600-800 foot distance from the pond offers absolutely no drawback to martins using it. They can cover that distance in a matter of seconds and the pond will never be the primary attraction to the birds. The occupied house will be the primary center of activity and closer proximity to the house will offer your family much more enjoyment. Focus on a close location that is in an open area without tree encroachment presently, or anticipated in the future.

Welcome to PMCA and best of luck in your endeavor!
~~TEAMED WITH A MARTIN GODDESS~~

Member/Mentor-PMCA. I do regular nestchecks and participate in PROJECT MARTINWATCH!! Coordinated 3 geolocator studies-2009, 2010 & 2013. State and Fed licensed bander (retired Jan., 2020)
Dave Duit
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:02 pm
Location: Iowa / Nevada
Martin Colony History: In 2020, 60 pair with 285 fledged youngsters. 83 total cavities available, 58 Troyer Horizontal gourds and 4 modified deep trio metal house units, 1 fallout shelter, owl cages around all units. Martin educator and speaker. President and founder of the Iowa Purple Martin Organization. Please visit www.iamartin.org and join.

Flyin-lowe and John beat me to the major points of interest. With the weight of these houses they defintely need to be rigged up with a 3 or 4 inch square aluminum pole and a good sturdy winch system, use steel cable, not rope. The SREH come in a variety of entrance styles; I personally prefer the Conley II entrance with anti wing entrapments. The house doesn't need to be high on the air, the higher they go the more the winds will effect the houses sway and poles ability to do it's job. When in doubt always go strong and keep the system beefy. Beautiful house and I wish you the best my friend.
Mite control, heat venting, predator protection and additional feeding during bad weather add up to success.
ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Thank you guys for the input! I will get the special entrances for sure. On the pole- I'm relatively strong and I have plenty of help around the farm when I need to lean it over - and we have lots of wind - so I plan to make the double 2x4 or 4x4 post that will hinge at the base into two posts in concrete like the one shown. I know this is not ideal for the weekly checks, but I also know I will probably be a bad owner there and not be doing weekly checks- I have a more "leave them to nature" approach to things and it has worked really well with most things. This will be the first house out there too- I don't even know at this point if I will get Martins (this year, or any). If they come, and I get to expand, I have no issue coming back and doing it "right". Your guys advice is excellent and I am absolutely not ignoring it- just balancing everything. Really appreciate it.
flyin-lowe
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

The pole needs to raise and lower so you can do nest checks, it's not a matter of being able to lift it up. If you have a house full of nests and eggs you cannot tilt it down to the ground, all the eggs and nest would be destroyed. You also shouldn't go all season without lowering it. Even if you planned not to lower it you could have a snake up there (you would need to lower it), wing entrapments, jumpers, mites, etc, etc. etc. You don't want to use a house that you can't raise and lower during the season and you can't lower a tilting pole once nests are built.

Really no matter what kind of pole you use it's not to tough to get a house like that up and down. Both of my T 14's are home made and I use 3 1/2 in round galvanized pipe. On both house I built a square box out of treated 2x6's. The box has a large hole in the middle that slides over the pole and each section of the house bolts to the box. I can dig up a thread on here showing pictures of how my T 14's are mounted.
2020 Currently 42 nest, 110 babies, 64 eggs left to hatch(6-22-20) HOSP count-8
2019- 31 Pair over 100 fledged
2018- 15 pair last count 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair nested, 12 eggs total, fledged 10. 4 additional SY's stayed all summer but never paired/nested.
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles away, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair (11 that nested), 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair, 21 eggs, 16 hatched, 14 fledged.
flyin-lowe
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

I just noticed the top picture appears to be a tilting pole but it also has a winch mounted on it. Maybe it was built just to service the pulley's or something, but it appears as if that house raises and lowers as is.......

This thread has a picture of one of my T 14 "carriers" in it. Also one of my responses has a link in it to another topic showing a picture looking down between the T14 with the carrier set in. Really it is not more work to build a carrier than it is to build a tilt pole...


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35126&p=283516&hili ... er#p283516
2020 Currently 42 nest, 110 babies, 64 eggs left to hatch(6-22-20) HOSP count-8
2019- 31 Pair over 100 fledged
2018- 15 pair last count 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair nested, 12 eggs total, fledged 10. 4 additional SY's stayed all summer but never paired/nested.
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles away, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair (11 that nested), 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair, 21 eggs, 16 hatched, 14 fledged.
ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Ok, sounds like I need to figure out how to build a pole... wasn't calculating that into my build originally. ;)
ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

flyin-lowe wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:24 pm
I just noticed the top picture appears to be a tilting pole but it also has a winch mounted on it. Maybe it was built just to service the pulley's or something, but it appears as if that house raises and lowers as is.......
This thread has a picture of one of my T 14 "carriers" in it. Also one of my responses has a link in it to another topic showing a picture looking down between the T14 with the carrier set in. Really it is not more work to build a carrier than it is to build a tilt pole...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35126&p=283516&hili ... er#p283516
Ok I appreciate the insight from you and respect your expertise. I did the research on the T14 since you recommended it and it does indeed look like a great system. Appears I can get a worm winch too that will fit my Dewalt cordless drills (and more importantly eliminate the handle from kid reach). Appears the system, (minus any PM housing of course) including 32 SREHs is about $500- seem right?

Another question though- so the pole has to run through the middle of the house then, right? It is going to be difficult to build this house around the pole shaft requirement, but hey I like a challenge.
John Barrow
Posts: 948
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Corpus Christi / Sandia , Texas

ChickenMan,

I believe the pole and the winch cable go through the middle of the house. I suggest you go to the Ontario Purple Martin Group's website and look for the link for house plans. John Balga, who built the house with the red roof has posted a complete set of plans for the house at that site. I believe it's about 23 pages and covers all aspects of the design. I'm not a wood worker and did not understand a lot of what is shown, but I suspect you will benefit from his input. We all look forward to seeing your house in place and full of purple martins.
~~TEAMED WITH A MARTIN GODDESS~~

Member/Mentor-PMCA. I do regular nestchecks and participate in PROJECT MARTINWATCH!! Coordinated 3 geolocator studies-2009, 2010 & 2013. State and Fed licensed bander (retired Jan., 2020)
flyin-lowe
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

If you haven't already check the link in the thread I posted above. I built a square box that has a hole drilled in the middle. The box goes around the pole and my cable hooks to it. Then each section of the house bolts to the box. It's a pretty simple setup.
2020 Currently 42 nest, 110 babies, 64 eggs left to hatch(6-22-20) HOSP count-8
2019- 31 Pair over 100 fledged
2018- 15 pair last count 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair nested, 12 eggs total, fledged 10. 4 additional SY's stayed all summer but never paired/nested.
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles away, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair (11 that nested), 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair, 21 eggs, 16 hatched, 14 fledged.
Kegger
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:58 am
Location: Awesome Florida
Martin Colony History: Newbie in 2020: 2 pair of SY with 4 eggs each in Troyer Horizontals
fledged a total of 7 Martins

This photo of a T-14 with an offset winch/pole Image
setup would work nicely for what you have in
mind chicken man. The fixed spire at the top holds
a pulley and is tapered to mate up with the sliding
center section of the house. A seal would be a
good idea where they butt up. The offset requires
another pulley to make the 90 degree turn up the
pole. The offset about 4 feet will also protect you
from an accidental house fall. Search pole plans at
AndersonCC for a good roller assembly box detail
and pole construction for Purple Martins.
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ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Kegger wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:17 am
This photo of a T-14 with an offset winch/pole Image
setup would work nicely for what you have in
mind chicken man. The fixed spire at the top holds
a pulley and is tapered to mate up with the sliding
center section of the house. A seal would be a
good idea where they butt up. The offset requires
another pulley to make the 90 degree turn up the
pole. The offset about 4 feet will also protect you
from an accidental house fall. Search pole plans at
AndersonCC for a good roller assembly box detail
and pole construction for Purple Martins.
Thanks, this looks just like th T-14 pole that I can buy online- which has everything "built-in". Helps to see the house on there, I will make a collar like flyin-lowe mentioned. I'm good when I get to the wood! Just need to get all this pole stuff and pulleys figured out! Appreciate you sharing.
flyin-lowe
Posts: 3014
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
Location: Indiana/Henry Co.

I have built 3 T14's. Last summer lumber prices were crazy and it was only about 50.00 cheaper to DIY than what I could have bought one from Troyers for. It was for a friend and he wanted me to build it rather than to buy one. I'm not sure if Troyers prices have changed any since Covid or not. I know the previous one I buil was less than half the cost of the one I built last year. If i calculated my time into it there is no savings in doing it myself.
Also if you buy the pole kit with the mounting hardware you don't need the carrier I described. I used round galvanized poles for my two and used the carrier. My friend bought the pole and everything from Troyer, no carrier needed.

I guess I should also explain if your new that Andy Troyer designed the T14. He is Amish but owns a purple martin business. When I say Troyer that is who I am referring to.
2020 Currently 42 nest, 110 babies, 64 eggs left to hatch(6-22-20) HOSP count-8
2019- 31 Pair over 100 fledged
2018- 15 pair last count 49 fledged
2017 3 SY pair nested, 12 eggs total, fledged 10. 4 additional SY's stayed all summer but never paired/nested.
2016 1 pair fledged 4
2015 Visitors
2014 Visitors
2013 Moved 6 miles away, 1 pair fledged 2.
2012 30 pair fledged 100.
2011 12 pair (11 that nested), 43 fledged.
2010 5 pair, 21 eggs, 16 hatched, 14 fledged.
Black Jack
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:37 pm
Location: NC

Where did you determine where to start a colony in your pic?
John Balga
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:13 pm
Location: Essex, Essex County, Ontario
Martin Colony History: 2012-69 pairs at old residence
2015- 3 pair at new home colony
2016-6 pair at home colony-1 ASY FEMALE banded from Andy Troyer colony
2017-17 pair at home colony
2018-38 pair at home colony
2019-47 pair at home colony
2020-58 pair at home colony

:) Hello Everyone,

Both the Single Taverner and Double Taverner have been constructed a winch system to move the house up and down the pole. The tilt pole was used to make it easier to mount the house in this horizontal position.
All the entrances were equipped with SRE plates. (WDC)

In retrospect, I would probably now use a three-inch aluminum/steel square pole for both of these houses since I found that the regular wooden pole was prone to twisting after a number of years. The pressure treated pole still does not stand up to the elements in our northern climate. A laminated pole could also be adapted to the sleeve constructed within the house. Both houses have also been modified according to individual needs with tunnels and entrances placed on the sides.

Martins at my colony here have enjoyed the use of the Single and Double TAverner houses. If anyone would like any further clarification or information on this 2007 plan adapted from the 1919 Percy Algernon Taverner drawing, don't hesitate to contact me. :)

John Balga
OPMA
Keep the martins flying in Ontario!
ChickenMan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:03 am
Location: Lexington, KY

Thank you! I am actually going to postpone this project until next year because I had a local birder give me a 4-story aluminum house that is in great shape, along with a 14' pole (got lucky!) to get started. He suggested I give this free house a year and then expand because although there are tons of Martins where we live, they of course don't usually find and occupy a house the first year unless you get lucky. Then, I can expand next spring with the double or single Taverner. Being an amateur, I think this is probably a smart approach.

Can't wait to build the new houses though- I love projects. ;)
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